Why was it discontinued? I have no idea! But I’ve found this possible answer online:
In modern times, the reason for discontinuation is more often that the big pigment users (industrial colorants, automotive and architectural coatings) are no longer using the pigment, and it’s not feasible for the pigment manufacturers to continue production to support the small amount used in art materials.
Source: https://justpaint.org/the-life-of-pigments-in-fine-art-paints/
WHAT TO USE INSTEAD
PR264 pigment hides under these names in various brands:
- Winsor&Newton: Winsor Red Deep
- Daniel Smith: Pyrrol Crimson
- Holbein: Pyrrole Rubin
- Schmincke: Ruby Red Deep
- Aquarius: Pyrrole Rubine
- Rembrandt: Carmine
BUT WAIT! THERE’S HOPE
ANSWER : We are not discontinuing the Permanent Alizarin Crimson in our Professional Watercolor range but PR206 is no longer available so we are reformulating it with a different red pigment, PR179. It’s the closet color available to PR206.THEN I ASKED : Glad to hear you are reformulating it. PR179 is Perlyene Maroon, darker and more of brown hue, will it be a lighter more of a true red?ANSWER : The lab can adjust the hue to be redder and less brown. I haven’t seen actual color samples because the colors that used PR206 are still in transition but the digital color swatches look very close.Good news. Hopefully it will be very similar.
That is interesting, indeed! So they can use PR179 pigment and use some magic tricks to make it look more like Alizarin Crimson. That would be interesting to see. Let’s take a look at those three colors: Permanent Alizarin Crimson, Perylene Maroon and Winsor Red Deep.
I think we all agree that Perylene Maroon PR179 is more brownish than the other two (cause it’s MAROON, right ;). So I’m actually surprised that they say it’s the closest match. I used to use Winsor Red Deep as my dark red, because I thought it was more similar to the original Alizarin Crimson. I also used Perylene Maroon, but I didn’t think of it as my dark red, more like something between red and brown. So it would be really exciting to see the new version of Permanent Alizarin Crimson with tweaked PR179 pigment. If I run out of the current Permanent Alizarin Crimson and the new version is not made yet, I will switch to Winsor Red Deep, waiting patiently for the new alternative.
Actually, I’m really excited about this. I do like Permanent Alizarin Crimson’s hue, however, that paint has one quality that always bothered me a little bit. Or I’m just weird, I don’t know. When I want to pick up that paint from the well, and I add water to it, I always have a feeling that there is some kind of foam and that the color is not strong enough. It could be deeper and darker. I don’t have this feeling with other colors. So I’m curious how the new version will behave.
PO48
Speaking of discontinued pigments, there are a few more, but one that I know many of you love and use is PO48, which is used for Quinacridone Burnt Orange in Daniel Smith brand. I don’t use this color, however, I use something I believe very similar, namely Burnt Sienna (Winsor&Newton). I think they are very close, so if you’re looking for an alternative, perhaps you might like this one.
Having said that, the interesting fact is that I’ve found information from 2015 on the WetCanvas forum. that they knew back then (7 years ago!) that PO48 had been discontinued. 7 years later, we still have access to this color, so I believe that manufacturers bought more supplies.
- Do you use Permanent Alizarin Crimson PR206? Do you like it?
- Do you know any other good alternative?
- Do you use Quinacridone Burnt Orange PO48?
- Is there a similar color to PO48 in Daniel Smith brand?
I prefer aliz. Crimson by da vinci or cheap joe’s. I prefer winsor and newton burnt sienna over dan smith burnt orange for landscapes because bs by wn is awesome mixed with aliz crim and fr. Ult blue. Or. Wn. Burnt sienna with ul blu or fr.ul. Blue Im ok with granulation in landscape.
Loved the info about yellow. I settled on pretty muchthe same but i am still a fan of gamboge and If I had to choose one yellow itwould be hansa yellow med. thNk you Krys
I did use PR206 Perm. Alizarin Crimson from W&N, but then replaced it by Perm. Alizarin Crimson PR176 from Roman Szmal Aquarius series. I really love this hue! Unfortunatelly, it’s difficult to find it at a reasonable price – since the Brexit, Jackson’s isn’t an option any more!
Another similar beautiful Perm Alizarin Crimson paint is PR177 from Qor. It’s perhaps a tiny bit “warmer” than the one from R.Szmal, and it also doesn’t go as dark. Painted side by side, the differences are barely noticeable, though.
I do have PR264 from W&N, but for a reason I don’t even know myself, I can’t get warm with it and use it rarely.
Hi Chris,
I seems that W&N didn’t change the hue of the PR179 in order to make it match with that of the discontinue PR206.
The proof is on this video that it was uploaded recently on YT by the fellow Italian artist Elisabetta Furcht.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDUhrNfU9tQ
Elisabetta had the impression that she bought two different versions of W&N Permanent Alizarin Crimson one with PR206 and one with PR179 because that was indicated on the tubes that she bought and she also shows on her video.
But both the swatches that she made by these supposedly differently pigmented colours were exactly the same and obviously made by PR179.
I noticed that and I mentioned it on the comments and I also posted a swatch of how the PR206 looks like and she agreed that there is not way that the tube with the pigment indication PR206 that she bought was actually made by this pigment.
So W&N either filled the tubes of PR206 with the PR179 or it produced some butches or PR179 Alizarin with the indication PR206 with the hope that we wouldn’t notice the difference.
In any case PR179 is by no means an alternative to PR206 and it would have been easier for W&N to make PR264 more transparent than move to a maroon colour in order to replace PR206. The transparency after all of a pigment depends on the size of its particles and its binder.